I received a letter stating they needed it so I called and explained it was missing and we would have to reapply for a new card. This was not entirely the truth. I asked why it was needed and was told to prove residency and as a student I.D. I said he has a passport to prove citizenship. At that point he back peddled and said never mind we will just use his student I.D.

There are foreign students and illegals going to school here and they don't have socials. The school does not need it.

I had to practice having this conversation with others and in the mirror to become calm and proficient. Try it.

Bring up the fact you have a passport and see tell them because of theft you will not give out your social. The man told he really didn't need it anyway. Maria

... Excellent work, Maria. Well done!

The problem is that governments are always so slow to implement these common sense precautions. Remember how long it took for the IRS to stop printing your SSN on the pre-printed address label, which they mailed in an unsealed booklet? That drove me nuts.

Assertion 1: "States sell their DMV databases to private data brokers."

I don't know about other states, but that is no longer true for Oregon - at least according to the clerk at the DMV to whom I expressed my concern about my information being shared with others. If you like, I can research when the law changed and why.

Assertion 2: "They share their info with other states and the federal govt."

That is true. That's why I qualified my reply to Laura in Cincinnati (post #6165) by saying "In my case, at least, I don't think it's a problem to have my residence address appear on my driver's license, since I never show that license to anyone other than a traffic policeman. (I do not have a stalker with access to DMV records, and I use my passport, not my driver's license, for ID.)" I am gradually moving to a higher privacy level, but I am not nearly as "invisible" as JJL.

Assertion 3: "Once the info exists, pretty much anyone in the world can get access to it."

That's why I'm following the advice in HTBI: so that the infomation about me to which "pretty much anyone in the world can get access" is out of date and no longer valid.

Yes, it will. A successor trustee or executor (sometimes called "personal representative") has a fiduciary duty to the estate or trust, and those probate records are public record, so the court will require identification in order to issue "letters testamentary" which is a court authorized document officially appointing you to the position.

However, when I was assigned as personal representative for my mother, all I had to do was supply a photocopy of my driver's licence (I suspect a passport would work too) to the then-existing PR, who filed a change with the court. A couple of days later the Letters Testamentary arrived in the mail, with only my given name on them. All I needed from then on was a copy of the letters and a copy of the death certificate to do everything needed for the estate.

On the back of the Colorado vehicle registration is an affidavit that says, "THE FOLLOWING AFFIRMATION MUST BE SIGNED BY THE OWNER: I swear or affirm in accordance with section 24-12-102, C.R.S., under penalty of perjury that I now have in effect a complying policy of motor vehicle insurance in cluding an operator's policy pursuant to part 6 of article 4 of Title 10, C.R.S., or a certificate of self-insurance to cover the vehicle or operator of that vehicle for which this registration is issued. I understand that such insurance must be renewed so that coverage is continuous. Failure to sign this affirmation is a Class B Traffic Infraction and is punishable pursuant to 42-4-1701 (3)(a) C.R.S."

A couple of pertinent thoughts: First, an oath or affirmation signed or sworn under penalty of perjury is, legally speaking, "evidence" and is admissible in court. There are three kinds of evidence; physical, documentary, and testimonial. Sworn affidavits are documentary evidence.

Therefore, your signature on the back of the registration is documentary evidence of your compliance with the insurance requirements. If you give that registration to the cop (as you must, because it's a government issued document) along with your license, you have just provided him with "immediate evidence of insurance."

Note that "evidence of insurance" and "proof of insurance" are two entirely different things, and that you are only required to provide EVIDENCE of insurance during a traffic stop, but PROOF only in court.

Moreover, at the top of the back of the registration it says this: "Motor vehicle insurance is compulsory in Colorado. Non-compliance is a misdemeanor traffic offense. The minimum penalty for such offense is a five-hundred dollar fine. The maximum penalty for such offense is one-year imprisonment and a one thousand-dollar fine."

Note that FAILURE to have insurance is a CRIMINAL OFFENSE. Guess what this means? It means that all your Fourth and Fifth Amendment rights attach to any transaction with the police involving the question of whether or not you have insurance. Specifically, your right to be free from unreasonable search and seizure, your right to remain silent, and your right not to be arrested except upon probable cause that you have broken the law. He can ask you about it, but you DO NOT have to answer him.

So, my practice, when stopped and asked for "license, registration and proof of insurance" is to render to the officer the state-issued documents involved, which include my license and registration, with signed affidavit on the back. I DO NOT proffer any "insurance card" (though I always have a letter from my insurance agent indicating that I am insured which does NOT include the policy number or expiration date of the policy, which is also "evidence" of insurance in case I don't have time to play games with the cop) and when asked, I say "I'm sorry officer, but because failure to have insurance is a criminal offense, at this time I invoke my Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination and respectfully decline to make any statements regarding insurance, and I invoke my Fourth Amendment right against unreasonable search and seizure of my private papers and decline to provide such documents unless and until presented with a search warrant pursuant to an affidavit showing probable cause to believe I am driving without insurance. My immediate evidence of insurance, however, is noted in the affidavit on the back of the registration, and further, (raising my right hand) I hereby swear and affirm that I have a complying motor vehicle insurance policy in full force and effect for this vehicle at this time."

This usually results in a bemused look and glazed eyes and a repeated request for "proof of insurance." Eventually the officer gets the idea and either gets huffy and threatens me with a ticket or laughs and lets me go on my way. If he threatens a ticket, I say, "Officer, you must do your duty as you see it, and I must do mine." Then I sign the ticket and take it to court.

I've gotten one ticket that way, which was dismissed by the District Attorney when my lawyer made it clear that I was prepared to go to a full jury trial to argue my case. She said, "I don't have time to play constitutional games" as she dismissed the charges.

Now, your mileage may vary, and you need to carefully research your own state law, but in Colorado the legal principles are sound, and the legislatures knows full well that their "insurance papers" law is unconstitutional, they just choose not to address the issue because most people just fork over the card.

What's really annoying is that the state spent 12 million dollars creating a motor vehicle insurance database that the insurance companies are required to report to, which is available to dispatchers, so when you get stopped, the officer ALREADY KNOWS if the vehicle is insured or not as a result of the license plate query that EVERY cop runs before he gets out of his car to contact you.

Another suggestion for those of you not willing to take on the police is to request from your insurance agent a letter stating the vehicle description and VIN number that states that the vehicle is insured in compliance with state law, but which DOES NOT show your home address, the policy number, or the expiration date. This way you never get caught in that trap of forgetting to put the new insurance card in your car every six months. And the fact is that so long as you make your payments your policy NEVER EXPIRES, so when the cop asks, say "it never expires," and then shut up. Also, the rationale behind not providing the policy number is that under the Fourth Amendment, the policy number, and your contract with the insurance company comprises "private papers" protected against unreasonable search and seizure under the Constitution. Furthermore, the officer has no "need to know" for that information, even if he insists that he has to put it on the ticket or some form. You're NOT compelled to give him the policy number unless your state law explicitly says you are, and even then I'd challenge the law as being unconstitutional. And yes, you could create such a letter on your own computer, but why bother? Just get one from your insurance company. That way it's perfectly legit and you cannot be arrested for....wait for it....FELONY FORGERY.

Yes, creating a fictitious insurance card on your home computer is a felony, and it'll be found out if it has a fictitious policy number on it (see why I don't have the policy number available to cops?) and the cop makes a phone call to the insurance agent.

Really NOT worth the time and trouble to falsify an insurance document when you can legally dispense with the whole mess so easily.

On a TOTALLY unrelated note, has anyone ever noticed how proof-of-insurance cards (with one's name and physical address on them) are often printed up by the insurance office on some cheap, beat-up inkjet printer on plain white paper that anyone can get at Walmart? I can't believe govt offices take those as proof of anything--but they always do!

I returned to the DMV office and provided my new residence address. This is an apartment within my new landlord's home, and all the utility bills are in his name, not mine. For "proof of physical address," I brought my landlord along, and he showed his driver's license.

(This is the same procedure that one would use when a son or daughter applies for his or her first driver's license - bring someone along to attest that he or she lives at the same address. The person vouching for you must provide his own "proof of physical address" -- which could be his own driver's license if it shows that address.)

If your driver's license shows both a physical (residence) address and a mailing address, then it cannot be used as "proof of physical address." I think this is because in that case the replacement license would be sent to the mailing address rather than the residential address.

Perhaps Laura in Cincinnati could bring along the person who does receive the utility bills for her present physical address, to attest that Laura lives at that same address?

In my case, at least, I don't think it's a problem to have my residence address appear on my driver's license, since I never show that license to anyone other than a traffic policeman. (I do not have a stalker with access to DMV records, and I use my passport, not my driver's license, for ID.)

I currently am following the guidelines set forth in HTBI. Yet, I am coming up empty regarding how to maintain my "present physical address" without a utility bill or some other valid proof that includes my name. Any suggestions?

... Although I do not recommend it, I suspect that a number of small services will spring up, creating fake utility bills ...